This is a reprint of my thread off of the cola site, with more ability to say freely what we think here. here is the thread there.
http://ccs-gametech.com/index.php/colaccs-forums?task=viewtopic&pid=33541#p33541
((i will reprint only my posts and answers for viewing here you may comment on them, if any feel this should not be posted here or their post let me know i be happy to instantly remove it from here))
OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
OK new hot topic bugging me is I have been seeing a the organization of so called Camper Hunts lots of times called in Cola chats of course is lot of times may be campers. However lot of time I been seeing is not. But people maybe role playing in French or Spanish when is not anyone around till one the great OOC "Hunter" sees them in the map and approaches hears them in chat speaking another language.
"BINGO" Camper damn foreign campers lets kill them all, some nerve comming to a CCS english sim and although is no one around role play in their first language among themselves. Then they use the Group Chats to call for assistance to "kill the campers" hmnn sounds like metagamming and ooc reason for combat to me all illegal. Let me assure you Camping is a global issue yes we have duty to report it wherever we see it is a exploit the CCS and Cheating. Call a GM.
But that being said the idea is they are not moving much talking among selves sometimes for long periods of time. Sounds like Pararole playing to me. But you start in with racist comments and insults and actully no one says "hey this is wrong let not do this here" is all the good old boy routine "oki guys on my way or get a rope".
Another misconception many have is Markus is not a native english speaking person OOC, I am from the United States born there in Missouri, English is my first language, i learn to play CCS and SL in french sim which was a eye opener for me. They have intense role play they can play a capture for 3 real life days and i seen them do it is tricky to use a translater but is possible and has many unforseen rewards.
So is funny to me if they are not english or spanish or french players they must be campers and no good in role play.
I have news THAT IS A LIE!
It is thinly hidden racism pure and simple. I know you all know exactly what i am talking of. Lets hear your points of view.
Last edited by MarkusChristopher (2009-05-25 06:08:33)
Digital Enigma
Bow Chicka Bow Wow
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
The last time I participated in a "Camper Hunt" we were checking for passports or other documents of immigration. Some people played along, some people refused to speak english and got GM called, some people were actually non responsive? Were they spanish or french speakers? Dunno, they never answered.
Siggy siggy fo figgy banana fanna fo figgy me my mo miggy. Siggy.
#3 2009-05-25 06:13:31
Nosferatu
Citizen
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
maybe because they couldnt understand u LOL
#4 2009-05-25 06:19:59
MarkusChristopher
Death Dealer Gangrel Shapeshifter
[Online]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
One thing I am not condoning is not using a Translater in role play in Nosgoth I did and now do use it all the time with out complaint, is not a excuse to not comply with the Sims Rules regarding languages, is corruption of the Sims theme. However using a OOC reason to instigate a combat role play is things we try to avoid is number one cause of Drama.
Last edited by MarkusChristopher (2009-05-25 06:20:31)
I never lie because I don't fear anyone. You only lie when you're afraid.
John Gotti
#5 2009-05-25 07:08:02
Lara Capalini
+Drakula Sire+
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
I agree for 100% with you MarkusChristopher, its exactly how you discribed.
~ ♡ Heavenly in love with Miss Speed ♡ ~
#6 2009-05-25 09:03:38
codywoodhen
Vanguard Captain
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
If you're in CoLA, and you have your meter on, and you refuse to RP in English, you are breaking the rules and deserve to be banned.
If you're standing in Nowhere, can only use English through use of a translator, but are more than happy to RP at the drop of a hat when people show up to RP, you are not breaking the rules. Have a wonderful day.
If you're in CoLA, and you are OOCly harassing people who are not breaking the rules, you are breaking the rules, and deserve to be banned.
None of this I'd describe as racism.
#7 2009-05-25 09:22:34
Darius Vayandar
Citizen
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
I wouldn't say im promoting racism, but i can tell you when i go into their sim, and they see a translator to English pop up i get attacked 9 times out of ten with no reason while walking around, it goes both ways. i also agree with cody, i have done plenty of rp with the non English speakers when they have the translator going. iv also have to deal with foreigners harassing my home daily, so no im not racist, but have i had mostly bad experiences with those who don't speak English in ccs? yeah, i have.
#8 2009-05-25 11:44:01
MarkusChristopher
Death Dealer Gangrel Shapeshifter
[Online]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
yes is the whole point this post is many justify it. I hear it all the time "Well i broke the rules because they do and started it" the rule are supposed to be respected tranlaters and languages so if they deserve to be banned if you attack someone for a occ reason why do you not deserve to get the same ban?
Exactly who are they? i only see Players not a race creed or color or language barrior how come i can go to any sim for the most part and role play and not have issues?
However i welcome the views keep them comming smile
I never lie because I don't fear anyone. You only lie when you're afraid.
John Gotti
#9 2009-05-25 12:02:29
Opal
*~僵屍~*
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
codywoodhen wrote:
If you're in CoLA, and you have your meter on, and you refuse to RP in English, you are breaking the rules and deserve to be banned.
If you're standing in Nowhere, can only use English through use of a translator, but are more than happy to RP at the drop of a hat when people show up to RP, you are not breaking the rules. Have a wonderful day.
If you're in CoLA, and you are OOCly harassing people who are not breaking the rules, you are breaking the rules, and deserve to be banned.
None of this I'd describe as racism.
Uh…if you are OOCly harassing ANYONE it is against the rules. Whether they have rule broken or not.
CCS defeating someone cos you think they are camping is pretty much illegal, you should just call a GM straight away if you suspect someone.
#10 2009-05-25 12:27:23
Macca
Pack Lycangel
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
I CCS people I think might be camping, but only after trying to engage them in RP. If, after an appropriate length of time, they don't respond, I post that my character's getting pissed off at the lack of reply and threaten them. If again he's ignored, I CCS. If I'm able to take them down without any resistance, there's not only blatant camping happening, but I've given them a chance, and there's an IC reason.
Currently should be:
Drinking way too much.
#11 2009-05-25 13:02:40
Wezab
Citizen
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
The way i see it, those that make an effort to Communicate with others are doing a world of good. Reminding people to SL TOS and im sure its in CCS TOS aswell, that RACISIM is not only CCS banable, It could be SL BANNABLE!!
Looking at other items, when it comes to Double XP, We see more of a fare share of Gestubaters, trigger happy Gun nuts Etc etc… all these NOT non-english speakers.. I've seen plenty of people who have english as their first language Sponge XP and sit tight. Camping is a problem yes, but dont think its one group entirely. I make sure to keep on my toes about camping. Always Double check that people are alive before Sending the call for IM, i give them 5-10 mins… In said time im doing something else.. Searching for some good RP or looking for friends In game to meet and seek some form of fun.
Also, People should try finding and Getting their hands on a translator.. The Babbler Failed some time in 2008 and the Babel Fish went to hell too.. but as one fails, another one Succeeds it.. I got my hands on a free Translator and i havent had any problems with it, how come other people cant before Assuming "Forrigner Campers"?
#12 2009-05-25 13:19:37
Micarla Metzer
Citizen
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
I tend to look at it like this, the rules are the rules. In some sims, you must speak english or wear a translator. In some sims there are no rules regarding the use of translators or preferred language to be spoken. If I walk up to a group of people and notice they are all speaking Spanish, dig out my Simbolic translator and have at it.
Now, we all know camping is breaking the rules. If I, as a GM, walk up to someone and say "Hello" and get back an "Hola" or a "Bonjour", I'm not going to get a bug up my butt about it. And I'm certainly not going to scream "CAMPER!" and start screaming in chats about it, because they answered me. Camping is no response in a certain amount of time. It has nothing, NOTHING to do with language spoken.
Again, sim owners make the rules and some make rules for preferred language spoken on that sim. There are translators to help with this. Does that mean all people who speak French are campers? Nope. It just means they speak French.
So, in conclusion, follow the rules of the sim your on, be respectful TO ALL, and follow the golden CCS rule. No matter what, you DO NOT have the right to be an asshole. big_smile
The divine Miss M.M.
#13 2009-05-25 13:51:40
FrankieS
skattershot
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
i've taken macca's route before as well, and weeded out a number of campers. though my character's more of a stalker, looking for mugging bait, and shoots first, asks questions later. it's easy to spot campers then; they're the ones who don't even bother to RP, but rather go OOC as soon as you start shooting.
one of my victims actually said "i was afk just trying to gain some xp, why'd you kill me!", while i was in the middle of RPing the robbery. i got a GM on the case and left it. i wanna RP, not deal with ooc.
that's no reason to not shoot up campers though: while i'm IC, someone standing on a rooftop all by themselves is simply a prime target for being mugged. if they're camping or not isn't my fault or concern.
on translators/racism:
i'll get my translator out if need be, though i currently RP in sims that require english or a translator. i like the RP though, and there ARE plenty of good RPers out there who simply don't speak english. i feel sorry for the people who instantly discount RP simply because there's a translator involved.
#14 2009-05-25 17:15:30
Trix
++ LA Kitsune ++
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
I haven't banned, warned or CCSed anyone because of their language (unless they call me shit). Some of French and Spanish people had the opportunity to talk with me about the rules in their own language (although I suck at both french and spanish, I think I could be understood). And never I have banned anyone for RPing in their homeland language, whether it was LA or any other chain sim.
The problem starts when the player responds with "I won't be using English, I speak xxx and fuck off if you don't like it." The same would apply for people speaking French, Spanish, Russian, Japanese, Greek, Latin or tlhIngan Hol. And it has nothing to do with racism, just pure rule breaking
And I don't mind RP in any language. But which 'ja' in 'jajajajajajajajaja LOL' is RPing?
#15 2009-05-25 18:12:24
Kellie Caldwell
Citizen
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
There have been occasions where in CoLA my friends and I were in the middle of an RP or just chattin icly after an RP when someone or a group of someones (usually 2-6 people) will come up and start chatting via translator. Hey cool we got RP here! is the first thing in my head.
To date I can think of only a handful of times where that was worth while. I don't blame the people doing the RP. as they are trying. I blame the translator. Honestly If I can't understand what your saying I don't know how to respond properly and asking for a translation from someone every time you post is problematic at best.
I do try my best to go through with the RP though.
I usually try to say hi to someone if I suspect they are camping. I'll wave and say things and do a dance or something in front of them. If after a bit they don't respond I'll grab a GM and let them handle it. I don't send IM's cause that just alerts them that someone wants their attention and they can tab back in to say "Oh I was im'ing with my friends for a few moments." maybe… maybe not. Not my call I leave that for gm's
Build a man a fire, he is warm for the night.
Set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his life.
#16 2009-05-25 19:08:45
DarkMajik
++SNAFU++
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
The firs thing I do when I walk up on a group of non-english speakers talking in thier native language is fire up google translator.
If I see
Personx: I was hunting lycans yeterday, and got shot.
Persony: Oh, that sucks.
I assume its roleplay, and move on. However 9 times out of 10 its..
Personx: I only need 10 more xp to level. LOL. I am going to respec pleasurebot
persony: Cool, I'm playing my nintendo.
Obviously NOT rp, not in brackets, and usually accompanied by 10-12 gestures, with sound!
So, before you start shouting "Racist" please, make sure you're within the RULES of the sim your in
"The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit."
#17 2009-05-25 19:14:23
Suzanna
++Developer++
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
This is the dumbest discussion I've ever heard.
And I'll say why, and I've said it before.
Those who speak english, french, spanish, portugese…whatever else?
They're not RACES.
So thusly, we're dealing with "nationalism" not "racism".
And I get pretty short with the GMs if they're appearing to be dealing with players from other parts of the world in a harsh fashion based on the language they speak, so the CoLA GMs are pretty well aware I'm not too tolerant of nationalism.
Regardless of that, communities as a whole tend to be less tolerant of people that don't speak the primary language of the sim and thats not just in CoLA thats everywhere. Nationalism is in every sim and its not a good side of humanity frankly.
Camper hunts tend to turn up all kinds of people and any of them that are motivated by nationalism are not something I'd personally endorse or agree with.
#18 2009-05-25 19:15:59
Vyrain
Eternal Shadow
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
As a GM, I can't even count how many times I've been called a racist or biggot or any other name in the book. One case that sticks out in my mind the most was I was rping with someone who was off by themselves with a running meter, no one else even remotely nearby. So I walk up to them, talk, emote, all that good stuff. After about a half hour of trying and failing to get a response, I use the eject-ban button and IM the person to let them know they are banned for camping. What happens next? "I no speak English. You racist".
Meh, first of all, I'm not racist. Second of all, French/Spanish/Italian/etc aren't races. They are nationalities.
Aside from a few problem children, my overall experience with non-English speakers hasn't been too bad. Kudos to the ones that try to interact with translation devices! *high 5*
Edit - WEWT! Suz posted the nationality comment before me! <3
Last edited by Vyrain (2009-05-25 19:27:17)
#19 2009-05-25 20:53:38
Su Pointe
Syndicate Chief
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
Suz and Vyrain, you're a little behind the times. "Racist" no longer means "someone who hates a particular race or anyone outside his own race." In currant parlance, it now stands alongside "nazi" and "fascist" in meaning "someone who disagrees with you."
"Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result." - Winston Churchill
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#20 2009-05-25 20:59:31
Macca
Pack Lycangel
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
So calling someone racist is basically invoking Godwin's Law?
Currently should be:
Drinking way too much.
#21 2009-05-25 22:52:50
MarkusChristopher
Death Dealer Gangrel Shapeshifter
[Online]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
ok well is good to be in the open however i am only talking of what i personally hear i have heard racial slurs and yes many are called racist for the actions of a few the few is what i am talking of.
I of course have chat logging i am not saying things i cannot prove.
What is sad to me is i hear new players come and tell me what a great thing it was to kill the camping foreigners do I want to go. I have to correct them on the spot is wrong illegal and against the SL TOS as a harassment based on race creed or color or sexual orientation. Is illegal to attack someone IC for a OCC reason pure and simple.
If you wish a closed community you free of spanish or french speakers or race you need to close the sim or sims to free traffic, like one sim ((new D)) did a group access only for their double xp day.
That way they not come to be belittled and scorned insulted and harrassed based on their race or nationalizm. I am only asking you all to please quit. I am personally insulted each and every time i read it in my role play or in my IM group chats.
If i am wrong i am sorry but i do not try to cause a issue is just i love Cola and CCS and try to make it better in little ways if i can.
I never lie because I don't fear anyone. You only lie when you're afraid.
John Gotti
#22 Yesterday 05:21:17
Su Pointe
Syndicate Chief
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
Essentially yes, Macca.
"Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result." - Winston Churchill
#23 Yesterday 06:26:24
Woden
Citizen
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
Heads off to class now.
Last edited by Woden (Yesterday 06:31:43)
#24 Yesterday 20:53:22
Logan
Not a Tickle Me Elmo
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
The fact that the people in these situations are always (in my case) non-English speakers doesn't mean that it's why I'm targetting them. It's just a coincidence. I attack gesturespammers with the intention of RPing at them once they're down. To date, I've not managed this a single time without a GM being called in right after the fight because I didn't RP before the fight or any of a number of other reasons that aren't actually rules. None of this has anything to do with their language, though. I go into chat range and look for things like 'lol' and constant brackets and such. If I see RP of any kind, I leave it. Otherwise, I pick one of my pre-RPed reasons for Logan to glitch out and suddenly go homicidal.
Except for AS Dovgal and the people that come to mind when you think of the name "AS Dovgal" (I call them the Tanker boat crowd.) Finally, after two or three tries, I managed to get some RP out of them. Now, Logan ICly considers them friends and we actually post at each other every now and then. Good stuff.
Last edited by Logan (Yesterday 20:53:44)
Ziau wrote:
my number is 000-000-0000
Logan wrote:
Ziau posted his real phone number on the forums and I left him a voicemail that said 'Penispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenispenis*snerk*penispenis*click*'
#25 Yesterday 21:24:46
Rowan Valentine
Shadow Fox
[Offline]
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
Honestly I think people are too quick to claim racism (or whatever you wish to call it) as a motivation for anything. Tell you what, we are all human (unfortunately in my case) nuff sed
nadinenozaki
Malkavian Elder
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
Personally if people refuse to rp, or try to rp wirth me in english i change my langauge as they into my native swedish making stuff much harder on all. Not roleplaying in the sim major language is bad, i feel a little bad every time me and all swedish ccs players i know, well usally one viking is never around us malks. But we all four can get into talking a little swedish. But we try, maybe becase we are so small we have to adopt… People with Italian, Spannish or Frensh have few reason except lazyness not to use a translator. I have still to find a working one to swedish.
Catherine Kuramoto
Citizen
Re: OCC Camper hunts / helping CCS or promoting racism
I'm french, don't want to complain, not my kind, but I did suffer from "CCS racism" : The first time (long time ago) I was with few french friends in a english sim RPing all together (there were no one else except GM on the all sim) he came and forced us to speak english or use babblers, we found it a bit silly cause we were alone in the sim. Many times people said to me "You are french ?" and sometimes it sounds like prejudice but I don't care, racism is just a primitive behavior and unfortunatly do not have nationalty.
In another hand and to be honest I don't RP in french sims (too much dramas and sometimes too much corruption for me) I always try to RP in english without translator cause it sucks, but often I feel frustrated about my personnal translation time "How can I say that ? How to translate this typical french expression ? etc…".
RP must be interaction and I know many great french RPers how are too stuck to RP in english and it makes me sad cause they can share their amazing RP with english players plus translator can't help especialy if you like medieval RP.
I don't want to appear as Marku's sucker but he did a particular place with his sim Mythos, I never see so many different nationalities in a same CCS sim, spanish, deutch, english, french… Living in the respect of the others and I take the chance here to thank him for it.
And to finish my post I feel funny that this dicussion was start by an average Texan guy ; Since they have a bad reputation regarding to this subject tongue You may say he's a dreamer but he's not the only one.
